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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Just picked up a sweet 416 Hydro with 740 hours on it.

And I have 1 problem. It has the dreaded Blinking Low Oil light. Does not crank over with the key and the coil is not firing if I jump the solenoid. I have it partly pulled apart to access the Sending unit. Main fuse has been repaired before I got it. Wires cut and installed an external fuse holder and fuse.

I grounded the 1 wire out on the sending unit and the hour meter started working. Pulled the other wire and the low oil light went out. Plug them back in and the hour meter stops clicking and the low oil light starts flashing. Oil is fresh and to the full mark.

Any ideas? I pulled and tested both relays and they seem to be operating the way they should.

0609212022a.jpg 0609212001.jpg 0609212003.jpg 0609212002a.jpg 0609212002.jpg 0609212022.jpg

Sorry last 2 pics are sideways. 1 shows the sending unit and the other shows the replacement main fuse holder.

According to the previous owner, he was mowing with it then it just shut off. He has several other mowers so he sold this one to me dirt cheap. $250 is all that I paid for it. Deck is darn near mint and the tractor only has 740 hours on it and he gave me new OEM Onan and Toro filters for the engine and Hydro and a new set of belts with it. This mower was regularly serviced at Pristow's TORO Sales and service department since it was new.

Here is what it looked like in his garage.Yes it's been garage kept since it was new. 198383010_5608173302557916_7056783625682685504_n.jpg
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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4,767 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
OK well it seems that the Oil light flashing is not a problem? It should stop flashing as soon as it starts and the hour meter is also actuated by the oil pressure switch.

Guessing that I either have a bad connection in this mess of wires or possibly a bad ignition switch. Out comes the test light and Ohm meter. Wish me luck? I'm gona need it lol. These tractors have fairly complex wiring but I was able to download the correct schematic from Toro for it while the website was being "Up Graded"
 

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Super Moderator
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Could possibly be a safety switch.
 
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60' Wheel Horse,66' Wheel Horse, 67 ' Wheel Horse, 70' Wheel Horse, 71' Wheel Horse, 71' Wizard
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Eric, Found some conversations about oil light flashing issue on some other websites, hope it can help you out some.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Could possibly be a safety switch.
I hope not, but I'm starting to think that is part of the problem. If I engage the PTO leaver with the key on the run position I should see a light on the dash? It stays off. Same thing with the Brake pedal light. It stays off whether the pedal is down or up. The Parking brake light turns on when I engage the parking break though. Press the Check Button and all of the lights light up so the bulbs are all working.

Wheelhorses are a strange animal lol. I have to download the owners manual and try to figure out what these lights are supposed to do before I dig into ripping the dash apart.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
OK now we are getting somewhere. The "Motion Control Leaver" light is Non functional when I move the leaver with the key on the "ON" position. That light should turn on. Maybe someone zip tied the switch up under the dash? or there is a problem with the switch or a wire came off? Way Way to many wires on this thing. lol

I should rewire it and eliminate 3/4 of this junk. It would definitely be more reliable afterwards.
1 of my favorite Star Trek quotes. "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I took the screws out of the lower dash and Ooooh boy. I think I either found the whole problem or part of the problem. The BIGGEST mouse Condominium that I've ever seen. Inside of the dash under the battery tray is packed solid. The nest continues the whole way back up under the fender pan. This might be fun.


400009
 

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🤔😏😒 That looks just like one I have. I mean the mouse condominium I had in my 417-A a few years ago. Hmmmm I wondered where they moved to. Just let them know when you see them next time they're not welcome back here.😂😏 It is a great looking tractor. Great find.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It sure is packed in there lol. I'll probibly pull the fenders off as well just to clean it up and make sure they didn't chew on the tank or anything else important.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
OK I ripped most of the wiring out piece by piece and went through 80% of it so far. I have it narrowed down to the Start circuit. The relay works and will click when I turn the key but there is no power going to the relay to send to the starter. Ran out of daylight but I have power on the S terminal in the start position so there has to be a break between the ignition switch and the relay.

The 30 amp charging circuit fuse has no power going to it in any key position. Would a bad voltage regulator give me a no power to the starter circuit? If it's anything like a Kohler regulator it should have 12v on the B+ terminal.

I am going to pull the fuse block and both relay connectors out tomorrow and give them a good Probing lol.

Starter solenoid works when jumped. Relay switching circuit is functional so the safety switches are working the way they should. But I have no power to the relay. Problem has to be the red power feed wire on the back side of the relay. I checked and I have good continuity from the other side of the relay (Light Blue Wire) to the Starter Solenoid.

400050
 

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Mark J.
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Nice looking tractor. I wouldn't think a voltage regulator would give you starter circuit problems. What type of regulator does it have? Dirty connectors or bad ignition switch would be guess but I'm sure you've checked all of those already. Have you removed and cleaned all of the grounds?
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Yep pulled the main ground and the body grounds and gave them a good wire wheeling. Just seems strange that the regulator does not have power on B+ with the key in the run position.

By the schematic it should have power to B+. I'm not getting power to that fuse or the starter circuit relay either. Has to be a bad connection or break in the wire between the Relay and Ignition switch. I am getting power from the switch it's self and the connector on the back of the switch is nice and clean and tight fitting.

I need to borrow a test light off of the neighbor tomorrow. My old one fell apart. It would make this alot quicker. I'm using my volt/ohm meter with an alligator clip on the negative battery terminal but I need something with a longer and sharper point to pierce the wires and contact the terminal ends while they are still plugged in.

I'm getting pretty darn anxious to hear this thing crank up and run. The more I look it over the better it looks. I'm doing some cleaning while I diagnose the wiring. All of the hydro linkages and trunion are nice and tight. Belts are fairly new. Rear tires are probably less than 10 years old they have a bunch of the nipples? on them yet. I can tell this thing was fairly well maintained and it was definitely not abused in any way.

400051
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Found a connection in the main wiring harness plug that looks to have gotten hot. Snipped both wires and used a heavy Bullet type crimp connector so I can unplug it if need be.

Still no change. No power to the relay or to the regulator. They are supposed to be wired together and run up to the main power wire on the starter. Possibly a bad ignition switch even though it does turn on and when I turn the key to the start position it does click the relay? Just no power to the relay which sends current to the solenoid. I gota rip the dash back out for the 5th time lol.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK I found the problem. Wasn't my fault. That fuse that someone put in is part of the problem. On the back side of the Fuse block the B+ jumps across to that fuse. 1 common power wire for 2 fuses. LOL he didn't tell me that he tried to fix it and failed. He said that it just shut off and he couldn't get it started again. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

BTW I'm the 3rd owner. The guy that I bought it off of runs a small engine shop about an hour away from me. I hear stories about his questionable "repairs" from time to time. He bought it off of the original owner but only had it for about 1 week.
 

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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SWEET! It cranks with the key now. But I found out why it shut off on him. No Spark. I'm going to do some testing and change the condensor but I have a feeling that either the coil or trigger is bad.I do have power to the coil but the coil gets hot pretty darn quick with the key on.Within maybe 20 seconds the coil is almost to hot to touch.

Found this kit on ebay. Might order it just to have it even if the condenser is what is bad. $140. 4 piece ignition kit for onan 166-0785 | eBay
 

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Mark J.
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Glad to hear you found part of the problem. How many hours are on the engine?
 

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Mark J.
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Sweet! Nice low hours. Should last for a very long time!
My Cub 1811 only had 481 when I got it. I thought the hour meter was broke but it still keeps track of the hours. I think I have a little over 500 on it now. The Onan are a cast iron block correct?
 
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Sweet! Nice low hours. Should last for a very long time!
My Cub 1811 only had 481 when I got it. I thought the hour meter was broke but it still keeps track of the hours. I think I have a little over 500 on it now. The Onan are a cast iron block correct?
Yes, they are cast iron.
 
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Fixer of Broken junk
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ordered that 4 piece kit off of ebay. $149.85 with shipping. I'm going to replace the coil and condenser and hope it fires up but I will have the new Trigger and tone ring just in case. The Trigger is the expensive part. Onan wants something like $330 for one seperatly. I did pull mine off and inspect it but it looks good to me. No cracks or corrosion and it was clean and dry.

From working on a few cars with this type of pickup in under the distributor, they usually crack or partly melt when they go bad.


I'll have a spare one if mine is good. Having Spare parts especially the really expensive parts is a good thing. I seen you can get aftermarket coils for these for $30 on a bunch of sites including amazon, ebay and even wallmart.
 
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