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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up my first loader yesterday... well, first functional loader at least. I have an early Danco manual trip bucket but it needs a lot of work.

I think it's a Johnson Model 14? I can't tell if the subframe was modified from another brand or if it's had some repairs/modifications done; I'm no expert on these things. It leaks down fairly quick, one of the tilt cylinders has a bad leak so I ordered some o-rings and seals to rebuild them all. The pistons themselves appear to be in excellent shape.

It was originally advertised as a loader with a free tractor. The tractor, while ugly, appears to be in good shape. The gears all work and it shifts easily enough. There's still plenty of clutch material left. The weight box is heavily loaded. The only issues appear to be steering and engine related. The steering doesn't work much of the time, but after poking around I think the sector simply needs a shim or two. The motor smokes pretty bad, and not knowing it's history I'll probably just put a different one on.

I'm contemplating swapping the loader onto a 1256 hydro in the future, but I'll get it working properly on this tractor and see how it goes. In the past few years I've moved from automatic to manual transmission vehicles, so that may be sacrilege.

Anyhow, I figured some of you might enjoy seeing it. Certainly not original but that's hardly surprising.


Wheel Plant Tire Vehicle Automotive tire
Wheel Tire Vehicle Plant Automotive tire
Automotive tire Wood Grass Motor vehicle Automotive exterior
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Mark J.
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Nice looking tractor and loader. The bucket looks larger then the bucket on my Cub149 with a Danco loader. I would suggest getting the back tires filled with liquid ballast. That should add about 90lbs of counter balance for the bucket. You will most likely still need some weight in the box. I've done this with mine to keep extra weight off of the frame and axles. I actually have a set of dual tires on mine giving me 180 lbs of ballast and it makes my stance wider and less likely to tip with the bucket in the highest level wiht a load. Just a suggestion. Keep us posted with more pictures when you work on it.
 

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DR. Bolens
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Looks like the loader part is original , the brackets they used to mount to the frame areas are custom fabricated by someone .
The original ones had mount points to the Tubes in the front with a bar under the center , then in the back there were two tubular brackets that connected to the rear tabs in the transmission
 

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I'm contemplating swapping the loader onto a 1256 hydro in the future, but I'll get it working properly on this tractor and see how it goes. In the past few years I've moved from automatic to manual transmission vehicles, so that may be sacrilege.
A foot operated hydro on a loader tractor is about the best combo there is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I had a much better look at the steering today. Everything is worn out, but the main issue appears to be the bearings on the sector/clutch pedal cross shaft. The bearing on the right side is worn through completely and may have worn the housing oblong. I won't know until I have everything apart. The bottom bearing on the steering column is loose as well (those never get greased). I did manage to salvage a cross shaft, steering arm, sector and pinion from an old parts tractor carcass today. They're not in the best shape but certainly better than what's on there now. I may experiment with reaming for some bearings on the steering column that was on the same carcass.

I would suggest getting the back tires filled with liquid ballast. That should add about 90lbs of counter balance for the bucket. You will most likely still need some weight in the box. I've done this with mine to keep extra weight off of the frame and axles. I actually have a set of dual tires on mine giving me 180 lbs of ballast and it makes my stance wider and less likely to tip with the bucket in the highest level wiht a load. Just a suggestion. Keep us posted with more pictures when you work on it.
The rear tires may already be filled, I guess I'll find out when I change them. I do have a pair of narrow dual wheel adapters that would work with two sets of 6-12 ag tires I own. Unfortunately those can't hold much liquid, but it would be a little wider.
A foot operated hydro on a loader tractor is about the best combo there is.
True, but I've never had the best of anything. :LOL:
 

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Tractorholic
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Something that some folks overlook is how power is applied to the bucket cutting edge. If the rear axle is not connected directly to the bottoms of the posts, there is a risk of buckling or otherwise damaging the tractor's frame. Otherwise, the rear wheels keep advancing when the bucket stops. Available axle torque increases dramatically when a tractor is ballasted correctly for loader duty.

Farm equipment tractors use duals for flotation in soft soils. Construction equipment tractors use singles for maneuverability in restricted areas and improved traction.

The only times that a bucket should be up high with a payload is when lifting said payload out of a deep hole with a sling, or in preparation for dumping the payload in the bucket. Both should occur when tractor motion is at a minimum and the rear axle close to horizontal to prevent the possibility of tipping. At all other times, the bucket should be low to the ground.
 

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Farm equipment tractors use duals for flotation in soft soils. Construction equipment tractors use singles for maneuverability in restricted areas and improved traction.
One possible accommodation to that concept is to run the outer tires at a much lower pressure. They will still weigh the same, still make the tractor less likely to tip, but will not transfer as much of the tractor's weight to the ground, allowing the inner tires to 'dig in' slightly more than if they were equally inflated.

Even better, if you had a set of worn tires and a set of new, put the new ones on the inside and worn on the outside.

You wouldn't want to reverse the concept because if you make the outer wheel carry all the weight of the tractor you are cantilevering on your axle bushings/bearings a lot harder from that distance.
 

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Tractorholic
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One possible accommodation to that concept is to run the outer tires at a much lower pressure. They will still weigh the same, still make the tractor less likely to tip, but will not transfer as much of the tractor's weight to the ground, allowing the inner tires to 'dig in' slightly more than if they were equally inflated.

Even better, if you had a set of worn tires and a set of new, put the new ones on the inside and worn on the outside.

You wouldn't want to reverse the concept because if you make the outer wheel carry all the weight of the tractor you are cantilevering on your axle bushings/bearings a lot harder from that distance.
Duals spread the weight of the tractor over a larger area which reduces effective traction. It doesn't matter if the air pressure is lower in the outer tires, or even if those tires are bald. with most of the weight on the inner tires, they are still going to carry weight and reduce traction if they are making contact with the ground, and the one thing that you don't want to reduce when using a loader, is traction!

The difference in weight is the weight of the outside wheel with liquid ballast and the weight of the dually adapter kit, a total of about 120 lb per side. But duals spread the load of the entire tractor plus operator (about 600 lb on the rear axle), plus including rear end (3PH) ballast over twice the area reducing the pressure applied to the ground substantially. Less pressure on the ground equals less traction.
 

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Just an observation from someone who owns a loader on a tractor. I have a Large Frame HT with a loader and 48 inch wide bucket. Even with the much larger framed and longer wheel based tractor a fairly loaded bucket of dirt or stone can make even a large frame somewhat unstable. I have a 3 point hitch with approx 415 lb of ballast box on the rear and wheel weights. In certain situations the rear of my tractor can feel "lite". My front wheels also have one inch spacers making the front wheel width 49 inches. You may want to consider a slightly larger tractor to put that much loader onto. A Johnson 10 is usually recommended with a tube frame. If that is a 14 it is generally designed for a tractor the size of a Large frame. I am not saying it cannot be done on a tubeframe but if your going through the process of removing it from a 1050 to put on another tractor you MAY want to consider a slightly larger tractor for that loader to get the most out of it. Also as Tudor mentioned with a smaller tractor such as a tube frame there may be issues bending frames. Just give it thought and make sure however you decide to do it to make the setup safe as 300-400 lbs hanging off the front of a smaller sized tractor can turn into a bad situation very quickly. Good luck with your project.
 

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Tractorholic
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My front wheels also have one inch spacers making the front wheel width 49 inches.
My suggestion is to lose the 1" spacers. Contrary to popular belief, they do not help with stability since the front axle pivots and the tractor will usually tip beyond the point of no return with both front tires still on the ground. Front axle spindles are normally the weak link when a FEL is involved. Spacing the front tires wider adds extra strain to already strained components.

My MF1655 has a much narrower front wheel stance than is normally found of GTs that have a rear wheel width of 48", and in 22 years and 2200 hours of FEL service, stability has never been an issue, and that loader has handled payloads well in excess of 800 lb with its 54" wide, 210 lb bucket.
 

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Contrary to popular belief, they do not help with stability since the front axle pivots and the tractor will usually tip beyond the point of no return with both front tires still on the ground.
I have thought to test this but never have. To me it seems like a tractor could roll all the way to the stops on the front axle without tipping IF it didn't have any momentum going when it got there, and the problem is that it always does have momentum when it gets there. Loaders are both the main reason why you'd ever be tilted fully one way on the front axle with at least one rear tire off the ground, and also the only reason i could actually see a tractor falling over just from being in that position.. If you are carrying something heavy but especially something that can shift in the bucket as the tractor tilts over, it is going to finish the job for you.. moral of the story being that the main way to avoid tipping a loader tractor is to carry loads as low as possible, go extremely slowly when the bucket is high, and add weight/implements as necessary to make sure the rear tires NEVER come off the ground. I think if you had an empty FEL bucket raised to max and slowly jacked up one rear tire until the front axle was fully rolled, i think the tractor actually wouldn't tip from that without the momentum involved when it happens 'for real'. But there's not much we can do about the momentum problem aside from just keeping the back tires on the ground!

I take your point about duals 'always being worse' for traction than the same amount of weight on the original tires, but it's a compromise i would certainly consider taking on a garden tractor if i had the parts for that and NOT the parts for a 3pt that could just pick up some counterweight. As has already been mentioned in this thread, it seems like garden tractors are far more likely than other size classes to end up with a much wider bucket than the tractor itself, and since duals could conceivably not make the tractor much wider than the bucket already is, I'm more ok with them in that type of situation than i would be on most tractors which are already wider to begin with. My B6100 is sort of in this same situation as the 48" bucket is wider than even the 29x12.5-15 rear tires spaced pretty far out on the axles, plus I hardly ever have anything <48" on the 3pt. I actually bought some 31x13.5-15s to mount and will see if i can get away with spacing the hubs out any further than they already are. In my case it costs me nothing in maneuverability since it is still within the line drawn between the edge of FEL bucket, and edge of 3pt attachment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just an observation from someone who owns a loader on a tractor. I have a Large Frame HT with a loader and 48 inch wide bucket. Even with the much larger framed and longer wheel based tractor a fairly loaded bucket of dirt or stone can make even a large frame somewhat unstable. I have a 3 point hitch with approx 415 lb of ballast box on the rear and wheel weights. In certain situations the rear of my tractor can feel "lite". My front wheels also have one inch spacers making the front wheel width 49 inches. You may want to consider a slightly larger tractor to put that much loader onto. A Johnson 10 is usually recommended with a tube frame. If that is a 14 it is generally designed for a tractor the size of a Large frame. I am not saying it cannot be done on a tubeframe but if your going through the process of removing it from a 1050 to put on another tractor you MAY want to consider a slightly larger tractor for that loader to get the most out of it. Also as Tudor mentioned with a smaller tractor such as a tube frame there may be issues bending frames. Just give it thought and make sure however you decide to do it to make the setup safe as 300-400 lbs hanging off the front of a smaller sized tractor can turn into a bad situation very quickly. Good luck with your project.
The Johnson Model 14 was marketed for various tube frames, namely the 1050 and up. See the last five pages of this Johnson Loader Model 14 Owners Manual. Mine uses the smaller 1.5" diameter cylinders, I'm guessing the large frame model uses 2" diameter cylinders? However I do agree with you, it's probably a bit much for this tractor, at least with the bucket that's on it. While the modified subframe is less than ideal, I don't have the skills to fabricate a different one at this time.

I haven't done much with it lately. I tore down both tilt cylinders and replaced the o-rings to stop the bad leaks. No pictures of that besides one I took for reference. I gave the loader a good looking over and found a few more issues that I will mention at a later time. Getting functional steering is at the top of my list for now.
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I do have one quick question though. Does anyone know where I can find a new and preferably different style of breather? This one is very difficult to remove. There's not enough clearance to swing a wrench. I could grind down a crowfoot, but this one has already been boogered up from vice grips/pliers (which is what I ended up using).
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Eagle eyed viewers can probably make out one of the issues I found with the loader in that last photo.
 

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Could you get a short pipe nipple and coupling to raise that breather? I don't see any way to grease those pins on the loader.
 

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Tractorholic
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I don't see any way to grease those pins on the loader.
Not too many of the old Johnson and Kwik Way loaders had a provision to grease the pins. because it isn't really needed. Clearances were such that seizing the pins due to rusting was not really an issue. The pins for my WrightWay loader have not been greased since I bought it in 1978 and show little signs of wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Could you get a short pipe nipple and coupling to raise that breather? I don't see any way to grease those pins on the loader.
That's brilliant, I should have thought of that. Thank you.

Correct, there's no grease fittings anywhere on this loader. The problem I see is the bushing the pin goes through. It looks like the weld broke and the bushing may be rotating.
 

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It looks like the weld broke and the bushing may be rotating.
If you try to slide that pin out you'll find out real quick if that's the case, because it won't be able to be removed either. :) The bushing would probably only break loose like that if the pin was held still (usually are) and the sleeve was seizing to it. What's the other end of the pin look like?

Earlier this year i repaired a whole bunch of loose pin holes on a kubota b219 loader which i believe is basically a johnson 25. Extremely similar but slightly larger construction. Those had pins with L-shaped heads that index into another nearby hole to keep the pin itself from rotating.
 
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