[Joe Baring]

Hello I have a Briggs and Stratton 14hp 32000 in a Simplicity 7014. Freshly rebuilt. The engine ran PERFECTLY until one day it did not want to start. I eventually got it started and it ran perfect. Once it was ran and drove for a while I parked it to see if it would start back up. It fired immediately and so I shut it off and tried it again. Same result. I parked it confidently thinking it was just a little dirt in the carb or an other problem that was pretty much fixed. I let is sit for a while and during this period it rained. I did not think much of it till I went back out there to start it and it would not start. It would fire once and a while, but would not start. Even spraying carb cleaner down the carb did not make it start. I figured it was water in the carb and tank from the rain and pulled it in the shop to fix. I drained the tank and replaced the carb ( Yes I do know I could of cleaned it out, but it needed one anyway) and the exact same problem occurred if not worse. It would pop a little with fuel in the carb, but would not start. I checked spark at the plug, it has good compression, the air filter is off so no restriction there. When I pulled off the fuel line fuel immediately started pouring out as it is gravity fed. I even checked the points and they were at 20 thousands. The only thing I can think of is the flywheel key sheared and the timing is just slightly off. Although it started just fine when I went to park it and it restarted well immediately after. I am fresh out of tricks and ideas. Any idea of what it could be before I take the engine out and check the flywheel key? Thanks and have a great day!

 

[marvinkeller11]

Check flywheel key I had one that sheared 3 keys proper torque is critical. I sold those tractor's new.

 

[EricFromPa]

What spark tester are you using? Most of the light up ones will still light up if you have weak spark. You either have to check the spark on a plug (it should be bright bluish white) (if it is a yellowish color spark it will pop off occasionally but it will not start, I would suspect a bad condenser)

Or buy yourself a 1/2 decent spark Gap tester. I have one of the Oregon in line spark testers. Used to be able to get them off of amazon for $8-$15 but I can't seem to find them on there. You can order 1 off of Walmarts site for $12.27 + shipping if you want to pick 1 up. Robot or human?


Rained out and now it won't start? Moisture in the points cover will do that. Spray the points and condensor and the cover out with brake parts cleaner and run a piece of emery cloth or fine grit wet/dry sand paper over the points.

A magneto and condenser usually goes bad when you shut the machine off. You are basically shorting both the condenser and Mag out to shut the engine off.


Put the original carb back on if it worked. Alot of the aftermarket carbs are hard to tune and some just run like crap no matter how much you adjust them.


Speaking of Walmart I have been buying quite a few parts off of there online store recently. They have all sorts of stuff on there now including pistons, rings, connecting rods, starters, carbs, tires, tubes you name it. My eyeballs about popped out of my head when I found a decent aftermarket piston and cylinder and clutch drum for my old Husqvarna 55 chainsaw on there. Shipping is alot cheaper than Amazon shipping if you do not have a Prime subscription. I did buy the more expencive Hyway brand parts but they are alot better quality than most other aftermarket parts and they are still around 1/2 the price of OEM parts.

 

[Joe Baring]

The spark is bright blue textbook spark at the spark plug. I will make sure to go in and clean the points before I dive deeper, although I can see a very slight residual spark sometimes so I think they are getting good contact. The cover is well sealed as well. My engine has a history of shearing flywheel keys (if not tightened right) and I did not put the flywheel on as tight as usual so I may have to check that. I just wish I could do it without taking the entire engine out of the tractor. I am getting pretty good at it though! Thanks everyone!

 

[jimmy G]

Twice I've had coils throw me with good spark, firing under compression is not the same as firing uncompressed(wouldn't start on damp days), if there's any play in that keyway(any) advance the flywheel in the play before tightening

 

[Achto]

I did not put the flywheel on as tight as usual so I may have to check that. I just wish I could do it without taking the entire engine out of the tractor. I am getting pretty good at it though!

I have a friend who is into Simplicity's. I always joke with him that he has to pull the engine just to put gas in them.

I would go after the flywheel key as well. Do not use any type of lube or anti-seize on the shaft or flywheel when in stalling it. I learned that lesson . Proper torque on the nut is also essential.

If you ever get tired of dealing with points, you can switch to an electronic pick up coil. A B&S #398811 or aftermarket equivalent installed backwards will eliminate the need for points.

 

[DougT]

My rule of thumb on spark is that you need to jump at least 5X the gap of the plug outside the cylinder to fire under compression. Take an old plug and open the gap up to 1/8 to 3/16 in and see if it will jump it.

 

[dodge trucker]

Sounds just like what my cast iron Briggs 10 HP did last summer, and it wound ut being the condenser

 

[Joe Baring]

Hello everyone I have the engine out and I checked a lot of potential issues. First I checked the key way which was not sheared and in good condition. Next I checked the valve lash and although I did not check with a feeler gauge I could clearly see they were pretty close if not perfectly in spec. Definitely enough to run the engine. (Not adjustable) I checked the spark again and it looked good to me. Although like a few of you said it can be different firing under compression. I just bought this coil and it has not been run very long so I will try changing my plug and condenser as I have both in the shop. DougT that is a very good idea. I don't have a proper spark tester and I usually just ground the plug to see the spark. I will definitely try that tonight! Thanks everyone and have a great day!

 

[Frugal_Tinkerer]

What spark tester are you using? Most of the light up ones will still light up if you have weak spark. You either have to check the spark on a plug (it should be bright bluish white) (if it is a yellowish color spark it will pop off occasionally but it will not start, I would suspect a bad condenser)

Or buy yourself a 1/2 decent spark Gap tester. I have one of the Oregon in line spark testers. Used to be able to get them off of amazon for $8-$15 but I can't seem to find them on there. You can order 1 off of Walmarts site for $12.27 + shipping if you want to pick 1 up. Robot or human?


Rained out and now it won't start? Moisture in the points cover will do that. Spray the points and condensor and the cover out with brake parts cleaner and run a piece of emery cloth or fine grit wet/dry sand paper over the points.

A magneto and condenser usually goes bad when you shut the machine off. You are basically shorting both the condenser and Mag out to shut the engine off.


Put the original carb back on if it worked. Alot of the aftermarket carbs are hard to tune and some just run like crap no matter how much you adjust them.


Speaking of Walmart I have been buying quite a few parts off of there online store recently. They have all sorts of stuff on there now including pistons, rings, connecting rods, starters, carbs, tires, tubes you name it. My eyeballs about popped out of my head when I found a decent aftermarket piston and cylinder and clutch drum for my old Husqvarna 55 chainsaw on there. Shipping is alot cheaper than Amazon shipping if you do not have a Prime subscription. I did buy the more expencive Hyway brand parts but they are alot better quality than most other aftermarket parts and they are still around 1/2 the price of OEM parts.

Or just touch the lead and touch a grounding rod. If you yell after cranking it over, that's a good sign it has good spark. If only a small profanity leaves your lips, you might have a weak spark. And finally, if you don't make a sound except for a puzzled grumble, you don't have any spark.
(EDIT): In all seriousness I would just zap myself instead of paying for a tester to find out if that's even your problem.

 

[29 Chev]

I don't have a proper spark tester and I usually just ground the plug to see the spark. I will definitely try that tonight!

One other issue you may have is poor battery voltage. By the sounds of your description when you are checking spark you have the plug removed and are cranking the engine over with the plug removed. If this is the case try it with the plug installed and use a different plug to check for spark. The added load of compression to the starter as well as the spark plug to fire under compression may be dropping the battery voltage just enough to provide a weak spark under certain conditions. The lower the battery voltage is while cranking the weaker the spark will be during the cranking duration. Just a thought.

 

[DougT]

(EDIT): In all seriousness I would just zap myself instead of paying for a tester to find out if that's even your problem.

There are a lot of ways to make a no cost spark tester. I mentioned opening the gap on a plug. The other option I use a lot is a number 2 phillips screw driver. The shank fits the wire ends snug and the distance across the handle makes a good test Just lay it on a flat surface or prop it to get the distance you want. If it has a good handle you can hold it.

 

[Joe Baring]

One other issue you may have is poor battery voltage. By the sounds of your description when you are checking spark you have the plug removed and are cranking the engine over with the plug removed. If this is the case try it with the plug installed and use a different plug to check for spark. The added load of compression to the starter as well as the spark plug to fire under compression may be dropping the battery voltage just enough to provide a weak spark under certain conditions. The lower the battery voltage is while cranking the weaker the spark will be during the cranking duration. Just a thought.

This is a magneto ignition, not a battery ignition. I should have specified. Also I have Very good crankage. Those old briggs and stratton starters crank over the engine at Moch 5!

 

[gr8tech1]

You only need 3 things for the engine to run, spark, fuel, and compression, you have verified spark and fuel, what's next?

 

[Joe Baring]

Well I feel really really dumb. This is one of those ignorant mechanic moments. I checked the points one more time and they looked just fine. Just out of curiosity I took my finger and slid it across the points. Dirt came off. I put the engine back in and it ran like new. That's all it was the points being dirty. I waited 2 weeks for a carb, spent $40 on the carb that took 2 weeks to get here and pulled the engine out of the tractor. And all the problem was, was dirty points. Man I feel silly. I guess that will happen from time to time. Thanks everyone for your help and I hope this thread will help someone.

 

[davidonedog]

Well I feel really really dumb. This is one of those ignorant mechanic moments. I checked the points one more time and they looked just fine. Just out of curiosity I took my finger and slid it across the points. Dirt came off. I put the engine back in and it ran like new. That's all it was the points being dirty. I waited 2 weeks for a carb, spent $40 on the carb that took 2 weeks to get here and pulled the engine out of the tractor. And all the problem was, was dirty points. Man I feel silly. I guess that will happen from time to time. Thanks everyone for your help and I hope this thread will help someone.

Could this be an age dependent issue? I mean your age not the tractor?

 

[EricFromPa]

I always spray the points off with brake parts cleaner and touch the contacts up with fine grit sand paper on a points ignition engine if they refuse to start. All it takes is 1 small speck of dirt on the contacts or a tiny bit of moisture in just the rite place to short out the points. Brake parts cleaner does not leave a thin coating on stuff like most carb cleaners do and it works great for removing moisture and small dirt particles.

Don't feel bad buddy. I have done the same thing on an old Briggs engine on my old Sears SS15. I even lapped the valves. I don't know why I didn't check the points earlier. Lapping the valves did make it run better after I figured out what was going on. Before I lapped them it would occasionally pop back through the carb.

If it gives you problems again pull the flywheel and mark the Magneto bracket location. Take the bracket off and wire wheel the bracket and the bosses where it bolts to the block. Some times they can get corrosion buildup between the aluminum Magneto bracket and the block and the magneto will loose ground.

Part number for the new style electronic ignition coils is Briggs part # 398811 if you want to convert it and do away with the points.

 

[boatmoter]

Hello I have a Briggs and Stratton 14hp 32000 in a Simplicity 7014. Freshly rebuilt. The engine ran PERFECTLY until one day it did not want to start. I eventually got it started and it ran perfect. Once it was ran and drove for a while I parked it to see if it would start back up. It fired immediately and so I shut it off and tried it again. Same result. I parked it confidently thinking it was just a little dirt in the carb or an other problem that was pretty much fixed. I let is sit for a while and during this period it rained. I did not think much of it till I went back out there to start it and it would not start. It would fire once and a while, but would not start. Even spraying carb cleaner down the carb did not make it start. I figured it was water in the carb and tank from the rain and pulled it in the shop to fix. I drained the tank and replaced the carb ( Yes I do know I could of cleaned it out, but it needed one anyway) and the exact same problem occurred if not worse. It would pop a little with fuel in the carb, but would not start. I checked spark at the plug, it has good compression, the air filter is off so no restriction there. When I pulled off the fuel line fuel immediately started pouring out as it is gravity fed. I even checked the points and they were at 20 thousands. The only thing I can think of is the flywheel key sheared and the timing is just slightly off. Although it started just fine when I went to park it and it restarted well immediately after. I am fresh out of tricks and ideas. Any idea of what it could be before I take the engine out and check the flywheel key? Thanks and have a great day!
View attachment 420946 View attachment 420947

careful filing the points, filing will remove the Babbitt off the contact area of the points. you can check the points to see if they are making contact with a DVOM,if they are,I would look elsewhere for no spark

 

[extech]

also using the common emory board can leave residue that isulates. slide a clean piece of paper between yhe contacts to check for dirt

 

[Bruce Dorsi]

You only need 3 things for the engine to run, spark, fuel, and compression, you have verified spark and fuel, what's next?

Mostly correct, but there is a 4th thing needed: Correct TIMING ! ....Spark, Fuel, and compression must occur at the proper time, or the engine may not run.