IMO They are not suckering you into "Snake oil"

If you are using the machines regularly then alot of the time the ethanol gas will be fine , if you only use these machines a few times a year then you will run into issues, ethanol will eventually damage your rubber and gaskets that are not intended for it, I have experienced this with our farmall cub that sits for 5 months at a time and several other mowers that sit. It turns into a jelly like / white crud substance, Fuel treatments help with this but are not a 100% solution.

I buy the VP tru fuel for all my restored tractors in a 5 gallon container. For the amount I use them once a year $14 a gallon is a small price to pay to not have to worry about gumming up my carbs and destroying obsolete carb parts.

The daily drivers I run ethanol with stabilizer , then let the carbs run dry before I turn the motor off for the day and never had a problem, only when they sit you get issues, they key is to keep the gas going through the carbs regularly if your using ethanol.

 

Thanks for the reply. I am interested in hearing what others have to say on this subject.

 

On another note, A good friend of mine who is a certified repair man for all the major lines who fixes these daily uses the premix in his personal 2cycle equipment.

 

I agree with earthginder 100% and disagree with Bolens 1000 75%. Yes with ethanol run a stabilizer. I never run the carbs dry on stored engines. That is what dries the gaskets, seals, etc out and causes leaks. Blaming ethanol on fuel problems is like finding a piece of rusty barb wire in a burned out building and saying the cause of the fire was faulty wiring. Just my opinion. Do what works for you. If you have $14 a gallon to throw at fuel go for it but I sure as heck don't and won't.

 

I'm with you, Chuck!

Even before ethanol came into play, gas would get stale, lose some of its volatility, and create gum/varnish over long periods of time.

Adding fuel stabilizer would delay problems from occurring.

I've seen ethanol-free premix for as high as $9 per quart = $36 per gallon. ....Not gonna' happen for me !!!

Do the pre-mixes have a stabilizer in them ?

 

is ethanol free an option.here it is only 20 cents more a gallon.

 

Would never buy that expensive pre mix stuff. I agree with others about ethanol not being too much of a problem when machine is used regularly.

I stock up on ethanol free gas when I am going to an area that offers it (google it for a station in your area) add a little stabilizer to it & save it for the old machines not run so much. If i have E-10 in anything that will sit, I run it out.

Speaking of ethanol, I have an 08 Chrysler, bought used, that is flex fuel capable. I've tried some of the E-85 in it & it runs fine but the mileage drops dramatically & the power is off some. Sure it's cheaper but not really. Corn is for eating!

 

On another note, A good friend of mine who is a certified repair man for all the major lines who fixes these daily uses the premix in his personal 2cycle equipment.

I think 2 cycle is a different story.

 

I have hard time believing that the e10 would clog the spark arrester as the technician said.

 

My brother in-law and his son have been Sthil dealers since at least 1970. They have always preached that stale gas is one of there biggest problems. After ethanol came on the market it has become even more of an issue. My nephew say he can tell instantly when he opens a carburetor if the customer has been running ethanol. Remember we are talking Walbro type carburetors. Ethonal is a solvent that many materials cannot tolerate. http://www.easychem.com.au/production-of-materials/renewable-ethanol/ethanol-as-a-solvent

It attracts water like a sponge http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html Pay close attention to the shelf life.

If that dosen't scare you then go ahead and use it.

I run it in my vehicles a couple of times a year to remove moisture and it seems to do a good job of that.

 

is ethanol free an option.here it is only 20 cents more a gallon.

If you can get it in your area. I don't understand why we still have E-10. Almost everyone admits it does not help the environment, results in less fuel economy, and raised the price of food!

 

I have hard time believing that the e10 would clog the spark arrester as the technician said.

I wholeheartedly agree. The Stihl rep that I emailed had a more believable reason. He said I may have left it idle and I know I did while moving wood and limbs around. Now I shut if off every time as it restarts easy.

 

Some time back I was at a show where a salesman was trying to persuade me to switch to the pure stuff. After visiting a bit and telling him how much gas I use, he said I don't need to worry. My son got a test kit to check all our gas tanks. Of course, me being a skeptic, figured that the test was rigged to show that we need to use their additives. After a half year of checking, not one gas tank showed that we needed to treat it. We still have the additives that I should use sometime.

 

If you can get it in your area. I don't understand why we still have E-10. Almost everyone admits it does not help the environment, results in less fuel economy, and raised the price of food!

Comparing apples to oranges. How do you figure that ethanol raised the price of food? Mainly white corn is used for food products, yellow corn is used to make ethanol. What little yellow corn is used for corn meal, etc. is not worth mentioning. Field corn (yellow) is a $3.02 a bushel and that raised the price of food ? ? ? Ethanol was never intended to improve the environment. It was intended to make fuel go further and it does. Also is a big boost to the economy.

 

Well just as I suspected there is no clear decision on this issue. Both sides are dug in and are not budging. I know what I do with my gas works as I have never had any of the common issues I hear about E-10. With what I have read, I do not understand why we are still required to use the stuff. Our cars get less fuel mileage, it does not help the environment, and food costs have gone up because of the stuff. And to top it off we now have E-15.

 

Comparing apples to oranges. How do you figure that ethanol raised the price of food? Mainly white corn is used for food products, yellow corn is used to make ethanol. What little yellow corn is used for corn meal, etc. is not worth mentioning. Field corn (yellow) is a $3.02 a bushel and that raised the price of food ? ? ? Ethanol was never intended to improve the environment. It was intended to make fuel go further and it does. Also is a big boost to the economy.

Are there still subsidies paid by the government for ethanol?

 

Are there still subsidies paid by the government for ethanol?

Yes every gallon. The way the bills for ethanol were originally set up as I remember it was, (this may need to be verified) No agricultural products used for human consumption (corn, soybeans, ect.) shall be used in making fuel additives, such as ethanol. Agricultural by products such as stalks, ears and hay were to be used. It was written this way because of the concerns over rising food prices.

As far as energy savings- how many BTU's of heat (natural gas) does it take to produce one gallon of ethanol? You start looking into this and the facts might knock you off your chair. Every time I drive by our ethanol plant and see millions of BTU's coming out of the stacks it makes me sick. With a little bit of creative engineering I would think at least some of that heat could be reclaimed.

Was it good for the farmers and did ethanol raise corn prices, Yes.

When ethanol first came out and people like me were using old tractors (WC Allis) boy did the problems start showing up. After the first tank of ethanol, fuel filters and sediment bowls started plugging up. We were told ethanol would help keep water from accumulating in the gas tanks. Anyone who has had gas tractors that set out knows this is a real problem so a lot of us were willing to give it a try. What they didn't tell us was that it was going to rot fuel hoses & Carburetor gaskets. They also didn't tell us that if there was any rust or corrosion in the fuel system it would start cutting it loose and plugging everything up. So there we are in the middle of winter, tractors won't start or run and we have to work in raw gas with bare hands when it's freezing cold out. This in itself really endeared me to the stuff.

 

The old days pure gasoline would form varnish if it sat a very long time. E10 sucks moisture out of the air, forms gooey globules and the water corrodes the brass parts in carburetors. If the humidity is high it can only take a few weeks. The moisture the E10 soaks up will also corrode a fuel tank, even if it's full. I don't think tanks ever corroded when full of pure gasoline.

All my carbureted engines get treated fuel if they will sit for more than a couple weeks. The stuff at the lake place (where the humidity is high) never sees untreated fuel.

The Stihl chain saw a bought a couple years ago claimed that ethanol burns at a higher temperature than pure gasoline. The book recommended that if running E10 a higher octane be used to reduce cylinder temperatures and extend life.

There were two reasons used to justify the ethanol mandate. 1) Reduce carbon emissions and 2) reduce dependence on fuel imports. I think there is general consensus that the carbon emitted in ethanol production more than makes up for any savings at the tail pipe. Turns out we seem to have plenty of our own oil.

As far as I know the only lobby currently supporting the ethanol mandate is the ethanol industry (which includes farmers). You can argue that the corn used in ethanol production isn't the same corn used in the food chain but it does compete for acres and other resources - driving up the cost of other types of corn, wheat, beans etc.

The only suitable use for corn ethanol is fermentation and a long soak in an oak barrel.

 

Cvans, you are mistaken. Fermenting grain or fruit produces ethanol. Stalks, leaves, hay etc. produce methanol when they ferment. Methanol is poisonous and carelessness with the materials that went into the fermentation is the reason people used to be blinded or killed by moonshine.

G. W. Bush had some program to encourage producing methanol (it can be used as fuel) from some sort of grass - but I don't think it went anywhere.

 

Your probably right but as stated that was from memory. I'll make note of your information in that post.

I don't think tanks ever corroded when full of pure gasoline.

The problem is I don't know of anyone who operated these old tractors kept their fuel tanks full all the time. Most had sediment bowls and it wasn't unusual to see them half full of water. Also the old fuel storage tanks especially above ground were prone to collecting moisture. In the winters around here it wasn't at all unusual to start your tractor in subzero weather and not have any oil pressure because ice crystals had plugged the screen on the pickup tube. The later 2 cylinder JD's had a oil pressure valve in the fuel line that would shut fuel flow to the engine if this happened. Then you either had to heat the tractors crankcase or drain the oil, take it in the house and to heat and pour it back in the tractor. I've had to do this and it's no fun out in the wind and cold.

Even had the bull gears in the rear end freeze solid. That moisture gets everywhere.

 

We have E-0 fuel available here, and I use it in anything with less than 4 cylinders.

 

One of our stations sells non ethanol gas and it's all I use in my two outboards and all my small engines, both 2 and 4 cycle. Those that sleep thru the winter have the tanks siphoned as empty as I can get them. Then they're and run 'til they die and I haven't had any problems doing this. The snowblower engine gets the same treatment for the summer.

As for the premix discussion I can't believe people will pay the same price for 50/50 antifreeze as they would for straight antifreeze. Have we become so dumbed down we don't know how to fill a container 1/2 full of water and the top it off with straight antfreeze?? Or is it a case of just too lazy or it's just too convenient??

I'm not a farmer, but as for the yellow corn, true, there isn't much used for human food. But how much is used to feed cattle, pigs, sheep and chickens? It's one of the reasons we've seen the price of meats go up due to competition from ethanol IMO. Look up how many btu's it takes to make a gallon of ethanol and how many btu's you get from it. If the ethanol producers had to stand on their own they'd go belly up but we the taxpayers keep them going. Maybe big brother should start subsidizing the meat producers to offset the extra cost of the corn and no, don't try to say I'm a Bernie supporter.

OK, rant over,

Mike

 

It was intended to make fuel go further and it does. Also is a big boost to the economy.

To make fuel go further - at what cost? Big boost to the economy - surely not mine, maybe yours! Now I have to buy additives and treatments to try and eliminate problems. I wonder Chieffan, are you connected in any way to the production of ethanol or the additives to prevent problems? Just curious.

Well I figured when I posted this there would be opinions on both sides, but seems most at this point are not for the high priced ethanol free fuel.

 

Ok new spin on this, I remember when corn skyrocketed in price, they were hauling it to a local ethanol plant by the semi load, dairy farmers feed prices went up but milk prices didn't, many farms in the area went under, the only thing I own that sees e10 is my truck, I buy non-ethanol for everything else, if I need mix gas I fill a 2gal can and add mix oil, he way we've done it for years. I have at least six stations near me that sell non-ethanol.

 

One of our stations sells non ethanol gas and it's all I use in my two outboards and all my small engines, both 2 and 4 cycle. Those that sleep thru the winter have the tanks siphoned as empty as I can get them. Then they're and run 'til they die and I haven't had any problems doing this. The snowblower engine gets the same treatment for the summer.

As for the premix discussion I can't believe people will pay the same price for 50/50 antifreeze as they would for straight antifreeze. Have we become so dumbed down we don't know how to fill a container 1/2 full of water and the top it off with straight antfreeze?? Or is it a case of just too lazy or it's just too convenient??

I'm not a farmer, but as for the yellow corn, true, there isn't much used for human food. But how much is used to feed cattle, pigs, sheep and chickens? It's one of the reasons we've seen the price of meats go up due to competition from ethanol IMO. Look up how many btu's it takes to make a gallon of ethanol and how many btu's you get from it. If the ethanol producers had to stand on their own they'd go belly up but we the taxpayers keep them going. Maybe big brother should start subsidizing the meat producers to offset the extra cost of the corn and no, don't try to say I'm a Bernie supporter.

OK, rant over,

Mike

Completely agree, I've seen the feed price issue first hand, they did pull the funding for a very short time and several plants went under, I never understood 50/50 antifreeze either.