[GhoSt85]

Hey Guys,

Posted it on the 'What did you do to your tractors today.' but figured I'd post it here since I haven't updated my thread. Might make some of you jealous.

Was finally able to get some hydraulics!!! The pump is leaking a little so eventually I'd like to rebuild and paint it red but for the mean time, been a pleasure using it.

Ok no more rubbing it in lol

Thanks for looking.

GhoSt

 

[GhoSt85]

Hey guys,
It has been a while since I did anything to my first Bolens. Unfortunately, it has sat neglected under a porch since spring last year when the governor let go while plowing. I put it in the back burner while I figure out what I wanted to do. Well, after much thought, I decided to go with more horsepower. Harbor Freight came up with there new line up of engines and I bought the 15.8hp one.

Here it is, being brought in for some work. Hope to be able to bring it back to life soon!!!

Never realized just how much oil it leaked

Before

After

Here are the two engine side by side.

 

[GhoSt85]

Unfortunately, I didn't take many pictures of the process but I didn't want to make new holes in the tube frame so this is what I came up with.

And this is how it pieces together on the tractor.

 

[GhoSt85]

I made new brackets for the hydraulic pump with a drop hoping I would clear the cylinder head and failed lol

That first fitting is just to tall. Do you guys happen to know if I could replace it with a simple 90deg iron pipe fitting? Or maybe I can move it to the other side. The pump should rotate the same direction and all I would have to do is get longer hoses.

Things are a little tight on the other side of the pump as well. Not sure if it would give me enough movement to tighten up the belt but if I can make the pump bolt up, I can probably make a tensioner pulley which would solve that issue.

Another thought that just now crossed my mind. I can't find the charging specs on this engine but I am sure its no different from the other engines. Would it be worth trying to attach the gen/starter to it? I can remake the brackets with a larger drop and also longer on the other side so I can attach mounting brackets for the gen/starter.

Anyways, this is as far as I got today.

Thank you all for looking,
Jesse

 

[29 Chev]

If you can get a shorter fitting you may be able to leave the pump located where it is. If the fitting is just pipe thread you could just get a short black pipe 90° fitting if you think there might be enough room and try it. Another option might be to go to a 90° brass fitting with male pipe thread on one end and 3/8" inverted flare female on the outlet. Then you could use a 12" or 20" steel fuel line like what was used on small block Chevy's in the 60's and 70's that went from the fuel pump to the carb - take it forward from the fitting and bend it around in a gentle U shape so the tubing outlet is on the outside of the other fitting and hose and then adapt it back to pipe thread to fit your hose fitting. Just a suggestion to consider.

You will have to check the manufacturers specs to see what the current output is from the charging system. If the new engine is still a clone of the Honda GX390 as far as the flywheel and charging coils you may be able to upgrade it depending on the number and configuration (pole orientation) of the magnets inside the flywheel. The first Honda GX390 I put on my 1050 only had a 3 amp charging coil and last year I upgraded it to the 10 amp Honda charging coils and used a generic regulator that I had been using on a homemade stator for years and so far it is working out quite nicely. I did a thread on it that shows sizes of the charge coils that you could compare to the one on your engine and see if it is the same. If you choose to upgrade the charge coils it may void the new engine warranty so you might want to check with where you purchased it first and see. Here is a link to the thread if you are interested - Honda GX390 Charging System Upgrade From 3 Amp To 10 Amp...
Another option might be a small alternator with a built in regulator off of a car mounted on the other side as it would be much lighter weight wise and more efficient than the starter generator unless your new engine does not have an electric starter in which case using the old starter generator would give you electric start.

Hope this helps and good luck with the upgrade.

 

[Dave in NY]

You're off to a good start. Doing a repower can have quite a few challenges. I would think that a 90 degree ell on the hydraulic line would work fine. On the charging system I guess what you intend to do electrically would determine if the new motors charging system is enough. If all you need is lights occasionally you might be ok. LED headlamps draw considerably less "juice" and could be used if you find the charging system can't keep up with demand for operating the lights at night. Just a thought. It's your tractor, time and money and you can do whatever you want. Another thought is , and it's only my opinion, and we all know the saying that goes along with that! Myself,I would modify the new motors exhaust and or aircleaner for clearance as opposed to cutting the hood for clearance. Again that's just my thoughts. The new fresh motor should make a big difference in the performance of the tractor. Save everything you remove, you never know, might want to go back to original sometime. Just sayin'

 

[Dave in NY]

Your tractor looks pretty solid and straight. I have heard good and bad, mostly good, about the Predator motors. I myself just went to H F and bought the 6.5 hp version to replace a tired out B&S on my wood splitter. I am going to find out firsthand for myself about the Predators. I suspect everything will be fine. Fingers crossed though.

 

[Dave in NY]

I presume you might have but was wondering if you checked for clearance under the lowered mounting bars for the pump and the right front tire when the axle is pivoted all the way up? Will the tire rub on the pump mounts? I suppose if you have pretty much level ground it wouldn’t ever be an issue.

 

[GhoSt85]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the late reply. Hard to find enough time on the computer with family, work and projects. So I got the tractor moving on the new motor. Just the tractor. Nothing else is connected. I wanted to try and see how the belts would run since the pulley runs about 3/8" further back on the new engine vs the original leaving the belts sticking out of the tensioner pulley by about 1/8". I need to upgrade all the belts by +1" because the originals now fit on there tight. Once they come in and I install them, going to see how it all looks. I can only think of two solutions. Machine the main pulley so it sits further in on the crankshaft or redesigning the motor mounts. I don't really want to mess with anything that is original to the tractor unless I absolutely have to so I am first going to try and redesign the motor mounts.

If you can get a shorter fitting you may be able to leave the pump located where it is. If the fitting is just pipe thread you could just get a short black pipe 90° fitting if you think there might be enough room and try it. Another option might be to go to a 90° brass fitting with male pipe thread on one end and 3/8" inverted flare female on the outlet. Then you could use a 12" or 20" steel fuel line like what was used on small block Chevy's in the 60's and 70's that went from the fuel pump to the carb - take it forward from the fitting and bend it around in a gentle U shape so the tubing outlet is on the outside of the other fitting and hose and then adapt it back to pipe thread to fit your hose fitting. Just a suggestion to consider.

You will have to check the manufacturers specs to see what the current output is from the charging system. If the new engine is still a clone of the Honda GX390 as far as the flywheel and charging coils you may be able to upgrade it depending on the number and configuration (pole orientation) of the magnets inside the flywheel. The first Honda GX390 I put on my 1050 only had a 3 amp charging coil and last year I upgraded it to the 10 amp Honda charging coils and used a generic regulator that I had been using on a homemade stator for years and so far it is working out quite nicely. I did a thread on it that shows sizes of the charge coils that you could compare to the one on your engine and see if it is the same. If you choose to upgrade the charge coils it may void the new engine warranty so you might want to check with where you purchased it first and see. Here is a link to the thread if you are interested - Honda GX390 Charging System Upgrade From 3 Amp To 10 Amp...
Another option might be a small alternator with a built in regulator off of a car mounted on the other side as it would be much lighter weight wise and more efficient than the starter generator unless your new engine does not have an electric starter in which case using the old starter generator would give you electric start.

Hope this helps and good luck with the upgrade.

Hey Stew,
So I have been looking at some of these fittings. I have found some brass fitting that are rated to 1000psi. Would this be enough for our hydraulic set up? I also ordered a "compact" fitting rated for 2800psi but it is just as bulky as the one I am trying to replace.
Said fitting I ordered: 5502-04-04 COMPACT Hydraulic Fitting 1/4" Male Pipe x 1/4" Female Pipe 90 5502-S | eBay

Probably should have payed attention to the dimensions provided.

Thank you for the link. I could not find the specs of the charging system anywhere. Not on the manual it came with, nor online. When I revisit this part of the swap again, I will look a little further but because it does have a starter, I think I will abandon the idea of using the starter/gen.

You're off to a good start. Doing a repower can have quite a few challenges. I would think that a 90 degree ell on the hydraulic line would work fine. On the charging system I guess what you intend to do electrically would determine if the new motors charging system is enough. If all you need is lights occasionally you might be ok. LED headlamps draw considerably less "juice" and could be used if you find the charging system can't keep up with demand for operating the lights at night. Just a thought. It's your tractor, time and money and you can do whatever you want. Another thought is , and it's only my opinion, and we all know the saying that goes along with that! Myself,I would modify the new motors exhaust and or aircleaner for clearance as opposed to cutting the hood for clearance. Again that's just my thoughts. The new fresh motor should make a big difference in the performance of the tractor. Save everything you remove, you never know, might want to go back to original sometime. Just sayin'

Your tractor looks pretty solid and straight. I have heard good and bad, mostly good, about the Predator motors. I myself just went to H F and bought the 6.5 hp version to replace a tired out B&S on my wood splitter. I am going to find out firsthand for myself about the Predators. I suspect everything will be fine. Fingers crossed though.

I presume you might have but was wondering if you checked for clearance under the lowered mounting bars for the pump and the right front tire when the axle is pivoted all the way up? Will the tire rub on the pump mounts? I suppose if you have pretty much level ground it wouldn’t ever be an issue.

Hey Dave,

My plan is to try to leave the tractor intact. I have spent some time working on a solution for the intake and exhaust as they are extremely bulky. I might have found it.

For the exhaust, I found this:

Low and short Exhaust Pipe for Predator 301 & 420cc, Honda GX 240 GX270 GX390 | eBay

Low and short Pipe 1" Female thread for: Predator 301cc, Predator 420cc, GX Honda 240, GX Honda 370, Honda GX390. This been tested on 8HP (301cc) OHV predator, and Predator 13 HP (420cc). Works also : GX honda 240, 270 & 390, Briggs 1450 305cc, Lifan LF190F-BQ 15 HP 420cc.

www.ebay.com

That guy also sells other exhaust setups. Might get a longer one facing the other direction and attach a long muffler on it like the large frames. I am not sure yet.

For the intake, I found this:

Air Filter Cleaner Housing For Harbor Freight Predator 420CC 13HP 16HP Generator | eBay

(3) 6500/7000 Watts 16HP Gasoline Generator Model: 66604. We will select the best carrier for each order.

www.ebay.com

Now I am not so sure this will clear the hood, but I happen to have one of their generators with that exact intake box. When I am ready to tackle this part of the swap, I am going to try it out first using the one I got before ordering it.

My clearance right now is about 3/4". But these tires are old. I believe they might be original to the tractor so I don't really want to drop the pump backets more and end up having clearance issues when I replace the tires with some new ones.

And apart from the generator, I also have a 6hp version that I bought for my sons gokart and other fuel starvation, they have never given me any issues. Even when they have sat for a long periods of time. They start on the first or second pull. I've liked them enough, that I ended up buying that new little racing engine they came up with which went on the gokart, a 13hp one for the G11XL that is waiting for me to get to annnnnddd this 15.8hp I am installing now. Kinda went deep in on these engines lol

Hope to be back soon with more updates.
Thank you all for looking and appreciate all help.
Jesse

 

[Dave in NY]

Looks like you just need to add a bit to the front of your mounting plates. Move the motor ahead and drill, tap new holes. Then could go back to using the original two bolts holding the rear of the axle mount housing. Just my thoughts! Always a challenge trying to figure out a repower.

 

[29 Chev]

Hey Stew,
So I have been looking at some of these fittings. I have found some brass fitting that are rated to 1000psi. Would this be enough for our hydraulic set up? I also ordered a "compact" fitting rated for 2800psi but it is just as bulky as the one I am trying to replace.
Said fitting I ordered: 5502-04-04 COMPACT Hydraulic Fitting 1/4" Male Pipe x 1/4" Female Pipe 90 5502-S | eBay

Jesse

I doubt that a brass fitting would give you any problem for this application - brass fitting have been used for years in automotive brake line fitting applications and brake fluid pressures can reach 3000 psi. I used one on the GM power steering pump I adapted for the hydraulic lift and it has never caused any problems - I would imagine the original hydraulic pump pressure relief valve is set for about 750 psi but I may be wrong. Brass fittings weakness is if something hits it as it is more apt to break or crack than a steel fitting would. You may come up with a better alternative than what I suggested - time will tell. Could you perhaps rotate the pump so the fittings come out the side rather than the top - just have to check to see if there is an air vent anywhere in the pump as it would have to be extended upward so no oil leaked out with it on its side.

 

[Dave in NY]

I was looking at the picture again of the Wisconsin and Predator motors sitting beside each other. The Wisconsin looks to be complete and cosmetically in good shape. Tank and air cleaner look straight. Whatever you do don't toss it in a scrap hopper! It could be rebuilt. Yes, parts for them can be pricey and you have to do some searching to find some of them. A proper rebuild and that motor would live for years to come. But I do understand the money side of the equation, cheaper to buy a brand-new modern motor, and replacement parts are cheap and plentiful. Could always sell or trade off the Wisconsin, someone might want to freshen up one for their tube frame tractor. Just my 3 cents.

 

[GhoSt85]

I doubt that a brass fitting would give you any problem for this application - brass fitting have been used for years in automotive brake line fitting applications and brake fluid pressures can reach 3000 psi. I used one on the GM power steering pump I adapted for the hydraulic lift and it has never caused any problems - I would imagine the original hydraulic pump pressure relief valve is set for about 750 psi but I may be wrong. Brass fittings weakness is if something hits it as it is more apt to break or crack than a steel fitting would. You may come up with a better alternative than what I suggested - time will tell. Could you perhaps rotate the pump so the fittings come out the side rather than the top - just have to check to see if there is an air vent anywhere in the pump as it would have to be extended upward so no oil leaked out with it on its side.

Hey Stew,
Went and got a 1200 PSI 90 deg street elbow. But I have made some minor adjustments that I may not need it. So with redeveloping the motor mounts to move up 1/2", I went ahead and redesigned the hydraulic pump mount. I switched to 3/8" bar stock and slightly tilled it up in hopes of the pump following the slope of the cylinder chamber,.... somewhat. Roughly about 5degs more. So a total of 85 deg??? I have yet to test it properly but it seems to have worked ok. If I still have issues, I can use the brass fittings for more clearance. Unfortunately I did not take any pictures doing a quick mock up but if I get some time on Sunday, I can have everything bolted down and be sure on all the fitments.

I was looking at the picture again of the Wisconsin and Predator motors sitting beside each other. The Wisconsin looks to be complete and cosmetically in good shape. Tank and air cleaner look straight. Whatever you do don't toss it in a scrap hopper! It could be rebuilt. Yes, parts for them can be pricey and you have to do some searching to find some of them. A proper rebuild and that motor would live for years to come. But I do understand the money side of the equation, cheaper to buy a brand-new modern motor, and replacement parts are cheap and plentiful. Could always sell or trade off the Wisconsin, someone might want to freshen up one for their tube frame tractor. Just my 3 cents.

Hey Dave, the original engine is intact. All it reallllllllly needs to get it going again is the governor. Although it really does need a rebuild. Two winters ago, I came back from vacation and decided to turn on my tractors to make sure my batteries were still good. I usually check the oil levels before I start but I had a rough ideas where they were at because before I left I had run them a bit and had topped the oil off. Well, some how the petcock had come loose on the 1050 and had drained all its oil. Turned it on and started doing some driving around to give the batteries some charge and about 5 mins in, it shut off. Found it kind of weird because the Wisconsin has always been dependable, so decided to check the oil level just in case and it was empty. The dipstick showed no level. Check the oil drain because I was planning to loosen it up a bit just to make sure and found it loose already. I refilled the motor, ran it a bit and drained the oil back out and sure enough, the oil came out looking really metalicy (is that even a word lol). Filled it back up again and ran it till the gov went out.

Figured its time for an upgrade. If I ever want to restore the 1050, I will have the Wisconsin in storage. I am a pack rat when it come to machinery and tools so its not going anywhere lol

Ok guys, so a small update and again not very many picture because I am trying to rush in getting the 1050 going so I can start prepping the ground for March planting.
I redesigned the mounts for both the engine and the hydraulic pump. I think it is much simpler this second time.
First thing I built was the engine mount. All 4 holes were tapped with a 3/8"-16 tap.

The holes are a little offset.

They HF taps have come in handy.

Great fitment. Woot!

Then I worked on the hydraulic pump mounts.

Test fitting all my holes. I ended up making the brackets a little longer and adding an extra hole to use them as extra mounter points for a battery, toolbox or maybe even an alternator.

I ended up redoing the engine mounts because by moving the hole 1/2" forward, the bolt head from the axle support would have been in the way.

With galvanized standard washer between the hydraulic pump mounts and engine mounts, I get about 1/32" clearance over the hex head from the axle support. It is close but glad it worked out.

 

[GhoSt85]

I didn't take any pictures on the other part of the hydraulic mounts but since I didn't have a way to make two bend so close together, I had to make it in two part. Bend the drop for the hydraulic pump and weld it back on to the part that mounts to the chassis and this is what it looks like compared the the first one I had mae:

Using 3/8" vs 3/4" will give the pump a 3/8" drop.

And here it is with the mill scale removed using an angle grinder and a flap disc.

I did not like the outcome. I hope I did not remove to much material to remove the mill scale. Next time I'll use a heavy duty wire brush on my grinder.

That is all for now,

Thanks for looking guys. Always appreciate everybodies input.

Jesse

 

[Dave in NY]

Nice job! Ought to work out fine. You will still have the battery mounted where it originally was? Are you going to fab some sort of a heat shield for behind the motor? Keep the hot air blown off the motor from going back into the dash plate area? I surmise you have a plan, just curious.

 

[Dave in NY]

You sound like me, I too save a lot of things. A quick look in my barn, cellar and garage would prove it. Although I have made progress on cleaning out and eliminating clutter lately. I agree about the mill scale. It's hard to get rid of. Have to grind or abrasive blast it off. Primer and paint never seem to stick to it very well, even if you sand it. My experience anyway.

 

[GhoSt85]

Nice job! Ought to work out fine. You will still have the battery mounted where it originally was? Are you going to fab some sort of a heat shield for behind the motor? Keep the hot air blown off the motor from going back into the dash plate area? I surmise you have a plan, just curious.

I am hoping to keep the battery where it was originally and attach the original heat shields with some spacers or some kind of adapter but I haven't crossed that bridge yet. This week I hope to be able to finally install the motor, the hydraulic pump, PTO and all the belts so I can move on to the exhaust and intake.

You sound like me, I too save a lot of things. A quick look in my barn, cellar and garage would prove it. Although I have made progress on cleaning out and eliminating clutter lately. I agree about the mill scale. It's hard to get rid of. Have to grind or abrasive blast it off. Primer and paint never seem to stick to it very well, even if you sand it. My experience anyway.

I clean and declutter just to reclutter after every project hahah .... I very much dislike mill scale. Its a shame it has to be removed for proper paint adhesion or I'd leave it on there dang it!!!! lol

Thanks for looking guys
Jesse