Garden Tractor Forums banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
trying to get it ready for plowing snow but it still wont start with the key. ive got power to the solenoid and to both the lower pins as well, i m not sure why it wont start. could any one clue me in to what all the things circled in red do? perhaps my issue lies there ive cleaned all the connections and grounds but still no results


Product Rectangle Font Schematic Slope
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
54,818 Posts
That relay could be bad. Know nothing about the time delay. Seat switch could also be an issue. Along with the PTO and FWD/REV switch just below your circle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: xryanmoney1

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I think we need a few more pages of the manual to know what those relays are for and what the ignition switch positions are (what contacts open/closed).

I am guessing the S contact is the pickup power to the starter solenoid and the other end grounds through that common connection to the right, with the PTO and FWD/REV interlock switches (meaning you cant start without being in neutral and the PTO off). Not positive on the red circled stuff but I think it is something else...??? Speak up if I am off base.

What does is do when you turn the key to start? You didn't say what happens when you try and start.

Do you have a high power charger with a ammeter made for starting? Disconnect the battery, connect that and see if the ammeter does anything on start. I had a ground issue inside the starter on my recent project Bolens. Not a single thing happened except the ammeter pegged which told me it was a ground and I better let off the switch before something melts.
 

·
A Little Off Plumb
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
trying to get it ready for plowing snow but it still wont start with the key. ive got power to the solenoid and to both the lower pins as well, i m not sure why it wont start. could any one clue me in to what all the things circled in red do? perhaps my issue lies there ive cleaned all the connections and grounds but still no results
Rectangle Font Schematic Parallel Slope

Added some numbers to the wiring diagram you provided that may help you trouble shoot the issue you are having.
When you say it won't start with the key does this mean that it turns over but will not run or that it does not turn over? Looking at the wiring diagram circled area I would say that this is a relay and timer set up to kill the engine if the operator is not sitting on the seat but I may be wrong - appears to be a wire connected to the kill wire on the engine that could ground out to kill the spark the same as turning the key off does. I would think that if something is bad in this area the engine would crank over but not start - just an educated guess.

If the engine does not crank when the key is turned to the start position then I would suggest using a test light connected to a good ground point and probe the terminal locations I have numbered on the wiring diagram to see if voltage is present when the key is turned to the start position. The starter solenoid appears to be a 4 terminal design (two large and two small) with an insulated base. To activate the solenoid one of the two smaller terminals provides 12 volts (terminal 3) to the solenoid coil and the other (terminal 4) must be connected to ground for current to flow through the coil inside the solenoid to create an electro magnet which causes a disc inside the solenoid to move and connect the two larger terminals so that power can flow from the battery to the starter. If the engine will not crank you can temporarily connect terminal 4 to ground and see if the engine then cranks over using the key. If it does then there is a problem with one of the switches, wires between the switches or a bad ground connection. If the engine does not crank after connecting terminal 4 to ground then the solenoid, ignition switch, wiring or a bad battery may be the problem.

Hope this helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
if the key is turned on and i jump the solenoid the tractor will start and run turning the key to the start position gets me nothing if the lights are on they shut off and the ammeter shows 0 instead of the negative draw from the lights i will follow up with all suggestions thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
if the key is turned on and i jump the solenoid the tractor will start and run turning the key to the start position gets me nothing if the lights are on they shut off and the ammeter shows 0 instead of the negative draw from the lights i will follow up with all suggestions thank you
Sounds to me like the ignition is working fine and the kill circuit 29 Chev mentioned is not a problem, otherwise it wouldn't run when you directly powered the starter. I would look at the starter solenoid or the safety switches next.

Switches: Check continuity across 29 Chev's point 4 and ground. If it is open, then either PTO or FWD/REV is preventing a start. If you are positive neither of them are engaged, that suggests a switch problem on one or the other. You can put a gator clip jumper from point 4 to ground to bypass the safety switches and start it with the key if this is the problem.

Solenoid: You can also test the solenoid by jumpering 12V+ to point 3 and point 4 to ground. That will test the solenoid. Note that starter should turn if it still has power. If starter is disconnected the solenoid should click. If it does nothing then the solenoid is bad. You can also check continuity across point 3 and 4 if you know what numbers to look for (I don't, other than open circuit means broken).
 

·
A Little Off Plumb
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
bad connection to the ammeter or bad ammeter
Would think if there was a bad connection to the ammeter or a bad ammeter the headlamps would not work or be intermittent in lighting and perhaps not very bright - just my opinion.
if the key is turned on and i jump the solenoid the tractor will start and run turning the key to the start position gets me nothing if the lights are on they shut off and the ammeter shows 0 instead of the negative draw from the lights
I would imagine that when the key is turned to the start position the power going to the headlamps is interrupted by design so that full battery power is available in the start position to crank the engine over. As a result the ammeter reading reading would drop to near 0 and show only what current draw is required to power the coil circuit of the solenoid (probably less than an amp).

I am thinking that if you do the tests that member Kyle Nicolls has suggested you will locate the problem - good luck and let us know what you find.

Remember to always think "Safety First" if you are jumping the solenoid and make sure everything is disengaged and the transmission is in neutral or park.
 

·
A Little Off Plumb
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
Found some information in a manual I found online that may help as it contains information on troubleshooting the interlock switches, the relay and the time delay module as well as how the key switch conducts in its various positions. It is attached as a pdf.

Edit: I updated the two wiring diagrams to identify the 87A terminal on the relay and also modified the possible cause answers in Observation section 1 on page 36
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Found some information in a manual I found online that may help as it contains information on troubleshooting the interlock switches, the relay and the time delay module as well as how the key switch conducts in its various positions. It is attached as a pdf
thank you im gonna dig in to it today gotta run out and get some snow blower parts as well as a fuel pump for the gravely
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top