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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the process of building a clamshell bucket out of my snowplow...strongly inspired by this: Triple Kross Kustoms clamshell bucket attachment
(Hope it's ok to link to a competing forum! 馃槄)

and I want to add an extra hydraulic cylinder to lift the clam. So while I'm waiting for myself to finish the metal work, I am planning the hydraulics.

I am thinking I will replace the 1 spool valve that is original with a 2 spool like this: 2 Spool 10 GPM Chief 220907 DA Hydraulic Valve | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

The original lift cylinder will connect to the first spool of the new valve.
I will then have A/B lines from spool 2 going to quick disconnects at the front that will connect to a cylinder on the plowclam-bucket.
This is the cylinder I am thinking of using:

The questions I am facing are:
1. Does this sound like it can work? 馃榿
2. What size hose should I use? 3/8 or 1/4"?


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have thought about doing that myself.
I'll post updates on how it turns out! Main thing now is just to decide if the hose from new valve to new cylinder should be 3/8" or 1/4". The cylinder uses sae6 (3/8") so I guess it makes sense to use 3/8" hose. But I wonder if the system originally is designed for 1/4" hose on the cylinder and that going up a size will impeed the pressure somehow... I know nothing about hydraulics! ;)
 

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I think 3/8" would be fine, but 1/4" is smaller OD. Check out Surplus Center for hyd. hoses.
 
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Looks like a nice project ! You shouldn鈥檛 notice any difference between 3/8 or 1/4鈥 , the 3/8鈥 would have a slightly more flow but again you not notice. I would add up which would be cheaper , each size but I鈥檓 guessing 1/4鈥 would be but you never know .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Looks like a nice project ! You shouldn鈥檛 notice any difference between 3/8 or 1/4鈥 , the 3/8鈥 would have a slightly more flow but again you not notice. I would add up which would be cheaper , each size but I鈥檓 guessing 1/4鈥 would be but you never know .
Ok good to know. 1/4" is slightly cheaper but only by a few $... Since I already planned it with 3/8" I think I'll keep it like that. I'm almost good to get the order shipped, but I need to have a look at how big the 2 spool valve is and if it will fit. It's actually about 20cm long and 13 cm wide... not sure that will fit where the original valve is. Need to check!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Aaand it won't fit... Far to big. Alternatives are either 1 spool valve with power beyond with the old valve in series after the new one. Or a double selector valve to use original directional valve on both cylinders. The space under the battery tray is not big so it might look like I'll have to have either solution mounted to the side of the tractor. Having the double valve from surplus centre mounted on the side is an option but I think it will be very big and get in the way. Back to the drawing board.
 

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I may be misunderstanding your intentions. ....Terminology varies geographically.

Since your original hydraulics only lift the plow or bucket, are you only going to make provision to tilt the bucket for dumping, as shown in the link you provided? ...Use of a selector valve with your single-spool valve will only allow one cylinder at a time to be activated. ....Used as a loader, it is often advantageous to use the lift and tilt functions simultaneously.

My interpretation of "clamshell bucket" is shown at: Clamshell Buckets with Quad-cylinder Design | Rotobec

If your intention is to add a "thumb," "claw," or plate to retain materials in the bucket similar to: The Thumb - Add-on Grapple Attachments you will need another hydraulic cylinder to operate this. ....This will affect control valve selection as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I may be misunderstanding your intentions. ....Terminology varies geographically.

Since your original hydraulics only lift the plow or bucket, are you only going to make provision to tilt the bucket for dumping, as shown in the link you provided? ...Use of a selector valve with your single-spool valve will only allow one cylinder at a time to be activated. ....Used as a loader, it is often advantageous to use the lift and tilt functions simultaneously.
If you look at the link you'll see that the clamshell design is such that the sides and bottom of the bucket lift forwards and up from the plow. This design is because of the limited lifting height on the tractor. With the clam shut it can load and carry mass, and with the clam open and the plow lifted it can dump the mass it is carrying.

My interpretation of "clamshell bucket" is shown at: Clamshell Buckets with Quad-cylinder Design | Rotobec
Yes I see that this could cause confusion! Not like that link at all! Maybe you can suggest a better name for what I am trying to build! 馃槄


If your intention is to add a "thumb," "claw," or plate to retain materials in the bucket similar to: The Thumb - Add-on Grapple Attachments you will need another hydraulic cylinder to operate this. ....This will affect control valve selection as well.
My guess is that it might be possible to grab things with this design, but it is not its main purpose.
 

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I am watching your build. It appears you are trying to add utility to what could be considered to be a johnny bucket type of attachment. I would be interested in seeing or knowing what it is going to be installed on. I have a craftsman version of a totally mechanical/manual Johnny bucket that I did a lot of scooping and carrying with. Was not easy or efficient but beat a shovel and wheelbarrow hands down. Having your clam shell configuration might have helped me in sifting dirt from rock. It also appears that it could be very effective to use for spreading material.
I have a couple of suggestions for you to consider. You could make the the opening/closing of the clam shell manual through linkages. You can also remote mount the valve and operate it through linkages. Just possibilities. I will be watching with interest to see what you come up with.
Don
 

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Thank you for the clarification about your project !

My mistake was I did not look deep enough into the original link. ,,,,Now I understand. .....The pictures I looked at (clam closed) appeared to be a solid bucket, so that is where I screwed up.

I think this style bucket is sometimes called a 3-way or 4-way bucket.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am watching your build. It appears you are trying to add utility to what could be considered to be a johnny bucket type of attachment. I would be interested in seeing or knowing what it is going to be installed on. I have a craftsman version of a totally mechanical/manual Johnny bucket that I did a lot of scooping and carrying with. Was not easy or efficient but beat a shovel and wheelbarrow hands down. Having your clam shell configuration might have helped me in sifting dirt from rock. It also appears that it could be very effective to use for spreading material.
I have a couple of suggestions for you to consider. You could make the the opening/closing of the clam shell manual through linkages. You can also remote mount the valve and operate it through linkages. Just possibilities. I will be watching with interest to see what you come up with.
Don
I'm using the original Bolens snowplow that came with my Bolens H14 as the back of the Johnny bucket/clamshell design. So basically im making 2 sides and a bottom with some reinforcements and arms that connect to an axel over the top of the plow. You can see the 2 bearing housings that i have already mounted. the hydraulic cylinder will attach to the axel with a custom made arm that extends out towards the front of the tractor.

What you said about remote linkages got me thinking though. I started looking at solenoid controlled valve selectors. A few of them are quite small and I think i might be able to fit them next to the original valve controller. This way a switch mounted on the panel next to the lever for valve can switch between the 2 circuits!
 

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Sounds good. But the valve is the least of the problem. all the plumbing to the valve will consume much more space. For that you may be able to use at least some hard line, like brake line. My Bobcat skid steer has about 3/8 tube going to the lift cylinders with no apparent problems. I seem to remember much of the plumbing on my Sears front loader being 1/4 pipe.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sounds good. But the valve is the least of the problem. all the plumbing to the valve will consume much more space. For that you may be able to use at least some hard line, like brake line. My Bobcat skid steer has about 3/8 tube going to the lift cylinders with no apparent problems. I seem to remember much of the plumbing on my Sears front loader being 1/4 pipe.
Don
Yes I have now had a proper look with the measurements for one of these solenoid valve selectors and it would be tight just to fit the valve let alone(as you say) the hoses. So my new plan is to put the solenoid valve under the seat. there is plenty of space there, above the hydraulic pump, and I'll just have slightly more hose to buy. I think that is going to be best.
 

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I went yesterday to Autozone and bought a 3 foot 3/8 tube to replace one on my bobcat. Had to salvage the existing fittings. Make three bends. Cut it to length and do a flare on one end. I couldn't find bare tube so I bought one with the wrong fittings to get the tube. I believe the tube I was replacing had been on there since 1976. The reason it failed is when a hose failed last spring I replaced it with one I had handy. Existing had been 2 wire and the replacement was 4 wire and so to stiff. Live and learn I guess
Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I went yesterday to Autozone and bought a 3 foot 3/8 tube to replace one on my bobcat. Had to salvage the existing fittings. Make three bends. Cut it to length and do a flare on one end. I couldn't find bare tube so I bought one with the wrong fittings to get the tube. I believe the tube I was replacing had been on there since 1976. The reason it failed is when a hose failed last spring I replaced it with one I had handy. Existing had been 2 wire and the replacement was 4 wire and so to stiff. Live and learn I guess
Don
Seems handy to know how do tubing like that and probably cheaper...but I have never tried so that will be for a less important-to-work project. For now I'll be using hoses. Prebuilt from surplus centre. Got my order in, so now I can focus on getting the metal work finished. I ended up getting a solenoid selector that can switch between the two cylinder circuits. I'll be mounting it under the seatpan where the old fram-filter used to be.(I modified to a screw on last year) Then I'll find a nice switch to mount next to the valve lever so as to easily be able to switch cylinders with one hand. Quick disconnects at the front of tractor need some kind of bracket that Ill have to make I guess.
 

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The learning curve for tubing is really not that steep. But it is also not necessarily less expensive. Getting the routing figured out is much more of a challenge. The tubing on my bobcat has several corners that are to sharp for bending tube and places where one tube splits into two. The retail price of the fittings to replace those would be insane. One hose that reaches the full distance with no additional fittings can be much less expensive. Tubing on the other hand can fit into tighter areas and often looks much cleaner.
Sounds like you are making more progress on your project than I am on many of mine. I am enjoying your journey. Just a thought. Wouldn't it be cool to control the solenoid selector with a thumb switch on top of the valve lever. I know, people like me can make can make screwing in a light bulb complicated.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The learning curve for tubing is really not that steep. But it is also not necessarily less expensive. Getting the routing figured out is much more of a challenge. The tubing on my bobcat has several corners that are to sharp for bending tube and places where one tube splits into two. The retail price of the fittings to replace those would be insane. One hose that reaches the full distance with no additional fittings can be much less expensive. Tubing on the other hand can fit into tighter areas and often looks much cleaner.
Sounds like you are making more progress on your project than I am on many of mine. I am enjoying your journey. Just a thought. Wouldn't it be cool to control the solenoid selector with a thumb switch on top of the valve lever. I know, people like me can make can make screwing in a light bulb complicated.
Don
Interesting about the tubes...it can look very nice if done nicely. I'm not necessarily making a lot of progress in the shed, but I have at least layed out a plan now. The parts will take a while to be shipped to Norway so I'll have some time to finish the metal work and get someone to help me weld the parts that need welding. (Also something to learn).

The idea about a thumb switch has occurred to me but the lever would be to small I think. It's basically just a little lever with no place for a switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'd appreciate if you would add some dimensions to the "clam bucket" that you've added to the blade. Also what width is the blade?
Thanks
Hi! Sorry for the late reply. Just as a slight warning: I have not calculated mass, weight or carrying capacity in any scientific way...I have just done research into what others with similar sized tractors have built. I am slightly worried it will be to heavy now that most parts are cut, and I will find out when everything is finished! 馃槄 It might be an idea to make it slightly less deep to cut down the weight.

  • Sides and floor = 3mm thick
  • Lip at front + stopbar at back + flatbar underneath at back + arms that connect to axel = 5mm thick
  • Axel = 25mm

  • The blade is 106.5cm ~ 42" wide
  • The floor of the bucket is 40cm deep with a lip that sticks out 3cm = total 43cm
  • The sides are triangular with a curved back that match the curv of the blade.
  • The sides and floor meet in an L profile.
  • I have a flatbar on top of floor at back to stop the clam from going past the blade.( I might at additional stops if this is not enough)
  • Flatbar underneath at back to reinforce and keep floor on same level as L-profile bars on sides.
  • Might add a flatbar from front to back in the middle to reinforce more if to much play.

I decided to drill and bolt a few things to get things where they need to be before welding, as I will be getting help for this I don't want to waste that person's time with adjusting and recutting what doesn't work.

That's all I can think of at the moment
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