Garden Tractor Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking for information on a Shaw model HY8A tractor. I am able to locate some information on the model HY8 tractors on the internet, but I have found very little information on the HY8A model. The model HY8 is described as the "High Arch Master" in the Shaw Du-All catalog #21 but no mention is made as to what the "A" suffix stands for.

As the picture shows, my tractor is missing the engine, bell housing, clutch plate, and hood. From what information I can find, the engine should be a Wisconsin 8 hp, possibly a Model AH engine. Is anyone able to confirm this?

If anyone could supply detailed pictures showing the correct bell housing, clutch plate and hood I would greatly appreciate it. Any sources for supplying these parts would also be much appreciated.

As for the paint color, all that I can locate is "Green Enamel" from the #21 catalog. Has anyone found a color match for Shaw tractors?
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
55,382 Posts
:wave: Welcome to the forum! That should cause some head scratching!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have attached some more pictures of the Shaw. The model plate appears to be original to the tractor, as the retaining rivets look to be untouched. Another thing about the tractor that I find interesting is that the torque tube and axle housings appear to be cast aluminum. Is this common among Shaw tractors?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
The tractor is not an HY8. It appears to be an early R7A. I need more pictures to help you and I have the correct paint formula.

Cliff
I would agree, the chassis with the exception of the transmission look Identical to Dad's R7A. I had every part dismantled on Dad's and replaced all the bearings in his rear end. I know it inside and out.
 

·
Tractorholic
Joined
·
8,445 Posts
Welcome to GTTalk ! looks to be a very well built tractor . I'm going to keep an eye on this thread , quite a mystery on which model it is , the plate sure looks original you wouldn't think years ago someone would have went through that kind of trouble to change it . Could it be parts from two different model ? Can't wait to hear more about it .
 
  • Like
Reactions: redoak3

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
A few questions for you.

1. What is the width of the frame outside to outside?

2. What is the width of the engine mount bar holes center to center?

3. What is the width of the square stock that the front axle is made of?

4. The gear ratio should be stamped on the left rear jackshaft housing next to the differential center section. What is it?

5. Is the differential center cast iron or aluminum?

6. Are the rear tires 8-24? and is the rim width 7 inches?

7. What state did you aquire this tractor from?

8. Did the person you got this tractor from have any information on it?

Cliff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Answers to Cliff's questions:

1. What is the width of the frame outside to outside? 20-1/4"

2. What is the width of the engine mount bar holes center to center? 13-1/2"

3. What is the width of the square stock that the front axle is made of? 1-3/8"

4. The gear ratio should be stamped on the left rear jack shaft housing next to the differential center section. What is it? 9 41 (see picture for clarification)

5. Is the differential center cast iron or aluminum? Iron

6. Are the rear tires 8-24? Yes and is the rim width 7 inches? 6" (I define Rim width as the distance between the bead flanges (inside to inside, not outside to outside)).

7. What state did you acquire this tractor from? Nebraska

8. Did the person you got this tractor from have any information on it? No, I purchased the tractor from the son of a deceased collector.

Thanks for your help!
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
55,382 Posts
Hmmmm? Good old 4:56 gears!
 
  • Like
Reactions: redoak3

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
The HY8 was the first riding tractor produced by Shaw with a conventional type driveline. Namely an inline engine, clutch, transmission, drive shaft tube, rear differential, and drop box gear reductions. It was first produced for sale around 1939. It used a Wisconsin AH engine (8HP) and a Borg Warner T84 transmission. The last models used the AHH engine (9HP). These used a cut down Ford model A rear end and the frame was 26-1/2 inches wide. They also offered an HY5 model and a 2HY5 model. These were the same tractor with a Briggs model Z engine, or a Stover DVA-2 engine. I do not know if these two versions were actually manufactured except in prototypes as they were not advertised in any literature I have seen.

In 1940, the R7 model was introduced to replace the RD-series tractors. This was a narrowed down version of the HY8 and it used the Briggs ZZ engine (7HP). Front tire size was 4.00 X 15 and rear tire size was 6.00 X 22. The HY8 had 7.50 X 22 as a rear tire option.

The frame width of the R7 was 16-1/2 inches.

December 7, 1941. Virtually all tractor production is stopped. Shaw manufactures small parts for the military. A customer could not buy a tractor unless authorized by the government ration board, and Shaw could not build one unless authorized by the same board to use materials to assemble one. A few were allowed and built with what parts were on hand before the war started and modified as needed to use what material was available to build a tractor.

The war finally ends. Tractor production resumes, but material shortages plague all manufactures for a couple of years after the war ends. Shaw produces mostly Peppy-Pal walking tractors for the first two years after production resumes as they do not require much material to build. 19 R7 tractors are produced from left over parts between November 1947 and July 1948, and 5 HY8 tractors are produced between January 1948 and October 1948.

In January of 1948, the first R7A model tractor is produced to replace the R7. These use the same Briggs ZZP engine as the R7 and a new design clutch housing built by Shaw. The transmission is updated to a Borg Warner T-96..The frame is 20-1/4 inches wide. Shaw uses the Ford model A design differential with Shaw designed axle housings with internal brake bands. The drop box gearing is similar to the R7 design. The front tire size is 3.00 X 12 with 4.00 X 12 optional. Rear tire size is 6-24 with 7-24 optional, or 7.50 X 16 optional.

In June of 1948, the first R9 model tractor is produced to replace the HY8. This uses the same Wisconsin AHH engine as the HY8, and all the same updates and tire options as the R7A. 49 Model R9 tractors were produced between June 1948 and May 1949.

109 R7A tractors were produced between January 1948 and November 1948. The R6 tractor started production in June 1948 and replaced the R7A. It is virtually the same tractor.

The R12T tractor replaced the R9. The first R12T tractor was produced in July 1948.

So what about the HY8A? One was shipped to Paul Wilkey of Quarryville PA on 6-12-48. The order was received on 1-24-48 for an HY8 in the amount of $740.67. My order book does not list any attachments included with any of the orders in it. My guess would be that Mr. Wilkey was not happy about the delay in getting his tractor. Mr. Shaw did not have an R9 to ship and did not want to lose the sale. So Mr. Shaw put an HY8 engine and transmission into an R7A chassis and told Mr. Wilkey that he was being shipped the new improved model HY8A. The only one ever produced! Glad it survived! Glad that I now know what an HY8A is!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
I think the clutch and bell housing for the HY8 may have been supplied by Wisconsin, but I do not know this as a fact. I need a clutch and flywheel for one that I am restoring that is missing. It appears that the AHH has a special crankshaft and the flywheel has a ground hub that the rear crank seal runs on. I have been told by a couple owners that the clutch disc is a steel plate and the lining is riveted to the flywheel and the pressure plate.

Shaw had three ring and pinion ratios. 9-34, 9-41, and 8-41. The final drive pinions on the R5 were 12 teeth, with 13 teeth on all others. The higher the HP, the faster the tractor was geared. No waste HP in a Shaw DuAll.

Happy New Year Guys and Gals.

Cliff

Motor vehicle Chair Classic Automotive tire Machine
Tire Wheel Vehicle Automotive tire Motor vehicle


View attachment Shaw R3.bmp
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
The HY8 was the first riding tractor produced by Shaw with a conventional type driveline. Namely an inline engine, clutch, transmission, drive shaft tube, rear differential, and drop box gear reductions. It was first produced for sale around 1939. It used a Wisconsin AH engine (8HP) and a Borg Warner T84 transmission. The last models used the AHH engine (9HP). These used a cut down Ford model A rear end and the frame was 26-1/2 inches wide. They also offered an HY5 model and a 2HY5 model. These were the same tractor with a Briggs model Z engine, or a Stover DVA-2 engine. I do not know if these two versions were actually manufactured except in prototypes as they were not advertised in any literature I have seen.

In 1940, the R7 model was introduced to replace the RD-series tractors. This was a narrowed down version of the HY8 and it used the Briggs ZZ engine (7HP). Front tire size was 4.00 X 15 and rear tire size was 6.00 X 22. The HY8 had 7.50 X 22 as a rear tire option.
The frame width of the R7 was 16-1/2 inches.

December 7, 1941. Virtually all tractor production is stopped. Shaw manufactures small parts for the military. A customer could not buy a tractor unless authorized by the government ration board, and Shaw could not build one unless authorized by the same board to use materials to assemble one. A few were allowed and built with what parts were on hand before the war started and modified as needed to use what material was available to build a tractor.

The war finally ends. Tractor production resumes, but material shortages plague all manufactures for a couple of years after the war ends. Shaw produces mostly Peppy-Pal walking tractors for the first two years after production resumes as they do not require much material to build. 19 R7 tractors are produced from left over parts between November 1947 and July 1948, and 5 HY8 tractors are produced between January 1948 and October 1948.

In January of 1948, the first R7A model tractor is produced to replace the R7. These use the same Briggs ZZP engine as the R7 and a new design clutch housing built by Shaw. The transmission is updated to a Borg Warner T-96..The frame is 20-1/4 inches wide. Shaw uses the Ford model A design differential with Shaw designed axle housings with internal brake bands. The drop box gearing is similar to the R7 design. The front tire size is 3.00 X 12 with 4.00 X 12 optional. Rear tire size is 6-24 with 7-24 optional, or 7.50 X 16 optional.

In June of 1948, the first R9 model tractor is produced to replace the HY8. This uses the same Wisconsin AHH engine as the HY8, and all the same updates and tire options as the R7A. 49 Model R9 tractors were produced between June 1948 and May 1949.

109 R7A tractors were produced between January 1948 and November 1948. The R6 tractor started production in June 1948 and replaced the R7A. It is virtually the same tractor.

The R12T tractor replaced the R9. The first R12T tractor was produced in July 1948.

So what about the HY8A? One was shipped to Paul Wilkey of Quarryville PA on 6-12-48. The order was received on 1-24-48 for an HY8 in the amount of $740.67. My order book does not list any attachments included with any of the orders in it. My guess would be that Mr. Wilkey was not happy about the delay in getting his tractor. Mr. Shaw did not have an R9 to ship and did not want to lose the sale. So Mr. Shaw put an HY8 engine and transmission into an R7A chassis and told Mr. Wilkey that he was being shipped the new improved model HY8A. The only one ever produced! Glad it survived! Glad that I now know what an HY8A is!
seems to be an interesting history behind this one, how did it get from PA to Nebraska? Just speaks to the good design of stanley shaw! Man I would love to see the archives that you have Cliff!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Just a few notes. Some later tractors had combinations of earlier parts. Shaw used everything he had that was available. The HY8 Bell Housing has a casting number of either 8G-136-A or BG-136-A. Could this be a Wisconsin number? It is much better quality then most Shaw castings, and the carload of Wisconsin AH engines that I previously posted were equipped with bell housings.

The crankshaft on the AH/AHH engines is unique to this clutch assembly. The enclosed picture is not great due to where this engine is stored.

I think this HY8A should definitely be preserved. It will probably require the sacrifice of an HY8 to do it. The six inch wide rims would have been equipped with 7-24 rear tires originally. The 13 1/2 engine mount is the size for an AHH.

Any questions? Feel free to ask.

Cliff
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
More notes. The T84 transmission and R7 clutch combination was used in a few later tractors. Mr. Shaw had to use up any remaining stock. R8 with standard Shaw bell housing and T96 transmission. R8LHE with R7 style clutch and T84 transmission. A handful of these were produced in 1952. I have one and am aware of one more..

Cliff
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
"The crankshaft on the AH/AHH engines is unique to this clutch assembly." From the photo it appears that the crankshaft is threaded, and possibly tapered and keyed. Could you please clarify? Also, is the clutch assembly a dual disc setup or a single, automotive style disc? What diameter is the disc?

It appears that the front of the hood may be cast iron, and the back is sheet metal. How does the hood attach to the tractor?
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top